hand #1 you cant bet the flop with nothing to see where you are?? you will get called by at least 2-3 and be out of position with no hand... not sure how you would suggest betting the flop. i doubt a club is a good card here. im surprised they folded on river i guess they all had clubs, but most of the time there is a guy in there with a pair on the flop that will call you on the river.

#2 i probably raise the turn. you will get called by both or so and have 14 outs/FE/possible best hand. marm he has the odds to call. this is limit. plz dont give advice if you dont know what you are talking about.

also betting that river would be pretty dumb. just check it down and see if its good


limit = math. 8:1 = 12%~ mike had 6 outs(back door FD = 1) on flop which = 25%~ sounds ev+ to me

if he doesnt improve on turn he folds facing a bet unless all of them call (dno if the odds are there or not). also you can calculate in an extra big bet on the turn or river if you hit your card at 25/5 limit