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Old 06-22-2005, 01:11 PM
mxp2004 mxp2004 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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Gir.... I used to think that your suggestion was heresy, but I'm starting to change my mind.

I started out from this perspective: the way to make money in the low-stakes limit game is to bet your good hands for value, look for the math to hold up, and then win big pots to offset your lost bets from the times when you do get outdrawn.

I'm now starting to refine this thinking a little based upon playing a lot more live, limit poker (and what I'm about to describe applies only to low-stakes, limit games). From these games, I've noticed that, if I had a legitimate raising hand, and I was in early position, I could deter anyone else from entering the pot by making it 2 bets to go. On the other hand, if I was in late position or the blinds, and I raised it up, the raise never caused anyone to drop who had already entered the pot. The raise only served to double the pot and make players more stubborn after the flop because of the size.

As a result, here is where I think I'm ending up. If there are already 4 or more players in the pot by the time that the action gets to me, I will probably not raise any hand except AA, KK, and QQ (and these only because of their exceptional strength). Raising will not cause anyone to drop, but it will cause a pot before the flop that has at least 10 bets in it. 10 bets give plenty of hands the odds to take one more card off the deck after the flop (since once I bet after the flop, their pot odds to call will be at least 11 to 1).

If there are 2 or fewer players in the pot, then I will follow my normal raising standards. In this latter instance, the raise will create a flop that has only 6 bets in it if no one else enters the pot and the existing limpers call. That is often small enough to make future calls incorrect by any players remaining in the pot, assuming that I still believe that I have the best hand. The pot is also small enough that players who conclude that they are behind will give up fighting for.

The difficult decision is when there are 3 limpers already in the pot when the action reaches you. This is a field that, if everyone calls the raise and Big Blind joins the fray, is on the verge of becoming a big preflop pot. All I can say is that I've noticed that once the preflop pot gets over 10 bets in a small stakes limit game, losing players before the turn is very difficult.

This is issue is discussed in passing in this month's Cardplayer Magazine. Here is a link to an article that raises the concern that you have:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...814&m_id=65565

Also, Steve-O raised this issue in this forum a few months ago. He raised the question about how to play AJ before the flop, based on an article that Rolf Slotbloom had written. I'll be the first to admit that, at the time of those posts, I was a vigorous advocate for raising all your normal starting hands that call for a raise regardless of position. Now, as discussed above, I would modify my position and call for raises when it can the desired effect: limit the field, as opposed to solidify players' commitment to a large pot.
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